Spreading the Joys of Homebrewing Throughout Philadelphia and Its Suburbs

To rack or not to rack, that is the question

(Following Don's Title theme of variations on quotes from great literature...)

I have the following dilemma: Should I rack to the secondary now, or wait a little more?

I'm brewing an Imperial Rye which has been bubbling in the airlock very nicely in the primary bucket for 7 days, and is still bubbling at a rate of once every 5-10 seconds.

Original gravity was 1.096 and the target gravity is around 1.025.

Two days ago, I measured it to 1.052 gravity, and today it measured at 1.034. In other words, about 90% of my expected attenuation has taken place, and I'm wondering if it's time to move it to the secondary for dry hopping or wait a couple of more days.

My main motivation for the secondary is a pretty hefty dry hopping, and I was hoping to let it have close 8-10 days in there before I bottle (which has to happen no later than the 3rd)

I've been looking around to see if there's a way to figure out how much more attenuation I can expect once in the secondary, but nothing firm has been found.

I'm inclined to give it a two more days, measure again, and then - unless something strange is going on - rack. The thinking is that it's better to ensure a strong attenuation than the marginal added effect of the dry hopping.

(Detailed recipe here: http://www.aleiens.com/photo/albums/homemade-60ft-immersion )

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dave Covey on June 24, 2009 at 12:31pm: I looked at your recipe and am wondering, did you do a yeast starter? If so, how big? With no starter or a starter that was too small, it's probably not going to attenuate anymore. The bubbling comming from the airlock is probably just CO2 that dissolved into the beer during fermentaion working it's way out and not an indication of any further attenuation.

I suppose that you could try giving the beer a gentle stir, or maybe try rocking the bucket a little to try to bring some of the yeast back into suspension, but it's probably done.

And of course, yes you can do as you're inclined and wait a couple of days to see if it drops anymore and then rack.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Eivind Sandstrand on June 24, 2009 at 6:52pm: Thanks Dave!

I did not do a yeast starter (last time I won't do that), so that may very well be the culprit.

I'm out of town tonight, but will measure tomorrow, and will let you know the result.

-e; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Don Gravatt on June 24, 2009 at 6:28pm: Did the krausen collapse in on itself yet?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Eivind Sandstrand on June 24, 2009 at 6:54pm: Thanks Don!

Mostly, but there's still about half an inch worth of foam resting on top.

I've asked my wife to rouse it ever so gently while I'm out, so we'll see what tomorrow evening brings in terms of gravity and racking.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Sam Scott on June 24, 2009 at 11:16pm: my 2 cents...

I say wait until the last possible moment before racking to your secondary. I've left smaller beers in primary for 3 weeks because they weren't done. When my gravity doesn't change for 3 straight days, then I call it "almost done" and let it sit another 3 days before racking/kegging.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Eivind Sandstrand on June 25, 2009 at 9:26am: Thanks Sam, that makes sense - I guess I have to be a little patient...

On the dry-hopping question, since I only have until the 3rd or 4th before I have to bottle (leaving the country for 4 weeks), do you think I should up the amount of hops to compensate for a shorter time in the secondary?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dave Covey on June 25, 2009 at 10:40am: If you can give it a week or so in the secondary, I'd say that'd be long enough to get enough hop aroma into the beer.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Sam Scott on June 25, 2009 at 6:52pm: Do you have the ability to chill the primary? If it were me, I'd throw the primary in the fridge the day before I left. The cold temp would drop the yeast out and delay any autolysis of the yeast. (Dropping the yeast out will also improve your dry hop extraction.) Then, upon return 4 weeks later, I would rack the cold, clear beer to secondary with your dry hops and warm it back up to 68 degrees for 5 days.

If you can't chill it... then yes, you should probably rack it with enough time before you leave to get some dry hop extraction. If it's warm (i.e 68 to 70 degrees), I wouldn't go longer than 5 days of dry hopping. If it's warmer than that, say 72-75 degrees, I wouldn't leave the hops in there for more than 3 days. The warmer it is, the faster the oils are extracted from the hops. Leave it in too long and you'll extract a lot of tannins and other harsh flavors.

Not sure about increasing the amount of dry hops... If you didn't get enough out of the dry hops and you weren't pressed for time... you could remove the spent ones and add more (if using a bag) or rack off the spent hops onto more dry hops in another vessel. Obviously not an option for you because of your deadline.

Disclaimer: I'm still learning just like you and the ideas above are not necessarily my own ;) I don't have that much experience with dry hopping (only a couple batches) and I've never made a beer this big. Most of info above I got from listening brewer interviews (specifically brewers from Russian River, Stone, and Lagunitas) on the Brewing Network. I figure they probably know what they're doing.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Eivind Sandstrand on June 26, 2009 at 11:56am: Thanks again, Sam - that's really an ensnaring thought, and I will do something like that for a batch in the not too distant future.

Unfortunately, there's not enough room in the garage fridge, and occupying the kitchen will result in a dog house existence for the remainder of 2009...

I did another reading today, and it's dropped another 2-3 points or so since Tuesday - now sitting at about 31-32. Overall, I've reached 93% of the targeted attenuation, which I'm fairly pleased with.

So, combining the wisdom and tips from you all with the empirical data of my hydrometer, I will give it two more days in the primary, then rack and let it have 5 days of dryhopping.

I tasted the sample I drew for the reading, and it's (surprisingly?) not overly sweet. The hops kick and linger, of course, but that was the plan.

Unfortunately, I will be out of the country for the July meeting, but by the August one, it should have aged for 7-8 weeks and will hopefully be enjoyable.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Eivind Sandstrand on June 27, 2009 at 9:53pm: OK, so now that I've done some more reading on how much yeast I should have used, using a starter, I'm reconsidering the next steps. Nothing like second thoughts to keep the mind guessing...

What are your thoughts on carefully pitching some additional yeast tomorrow (Sunday), letting it work for a few days, and then putting it in the fridge until I get back after 4 weeks and then doing the racking, dry hopping, bottling, etc?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jeff Louella on June 28, 2009 at 9:24am: hmm... 4 weeks is a long time on the yeast. Will it be ok in a fridge for 4 weeks? I think you will be just fine. 4 weeks at fermentation temps, not so much.

When you dry hop, you will want to raise the temperature back up to at least 50-60 degrees. The warmer temps extract the oils better.

If you are bottle conditioning, you will need to add some yeast back into the bottles during bottling.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jeff Louella on June 27, 2009 at 9:52am: I have a different take from Sam. I like to dry hop in primary with about 90% of fermentation complete. The reasoning why is that their is oxygen in the hops. If you move to secondary after the yeast drops totally, this oxygen will promote staling in the beer. If you dry hop at 90% completion, the yeast that is still working will eat up the oxygen and could possible help the beer finish to completion.

Sam is right, you get better utilization once the yeast is dropped out, but I just make up for that with an extra ounce. You're not going to have to worry about that with 20oz of hops though. In fact 20oz will add a ton of oxygen and adding at the last end of fermentation may be best.

I would even do 2 stage dry hop (very carefully). Add one phase of dry hops in the primary when the beer reached 85-90%. Then in 5 days, move to a secondary and dry hop again for another 5 days. Depending on how hoppy, this could be done for a third time. I'm not a fan of leaving the hops on for more than 5 days. It tends to pull the green flavors out of the hops. I just want the oils and aroma.; ▶ Reply to This